Transcript of Small Business Naked with Nick and Johnny September 23, 2014
To listen to the podcast you can click here.
JOHN: Tell me, you had this idea, again, to do the show –
JOHN: Why? Where did it come from and why do you want to do this show again?
NICK: You know, I –
JOHN: And why are you so damn excited about it?
NICK: So damn excited?
NICK: You know, since the beginning – since we turned the microphones off, John – and left the studio, I was sad. I mean, I was depressed, probably for two months.
JOHN: Did you cry?
NICK: I did not cry, but I was – you know, I just loved – I loved going to the studio. I loved getting guests that were hard to get and that excitement when somebody would answer back in e-mail and go, “Oh, yeah. I would love to be on the show.” And now it’s a great. But man, when we would be in the studio, I mean, I remember when we were talking with Wendy Curtis. And you know, she –
JOHN: And who is Wendy Curtis?
NICK: Wendy Curtis, one of my favorites from Comedy Works.
JOHN: Comedy Works, right.
NICK: And she came in and she was just so much fun to chat with and hang out with. And this kind of excites me about the way we’re doing it this time, because we always say, “Well, we wish we could just sit back on the couch and be comfortable.” And there was this level of – or a feeling, that you had to be super professional and really squeaky clean, going into the conservative radio station, you know (laughter)?
So I’m excited. And now, it’s a little bit, we can do whatever we want, you know? But like I said, ever since we turned off the mics, there has been a void that I’ve been a little bit sad. And then, really, I went looking for a podcast after we stopped. And I didn’t find one that I liked.
JOHN: All right, hold on. Hold that thought, right there: what was missing in the market, or what could you not find?
NICK: Yeah. So I wanted to find another show that just talked to business owners: guys like you and me, or folks that are more successful than us, that have real businesses, real tangible businesses, brick-and-mortar kind of stuff. There’s tons of stuff.
I mean you can find podcast after podcast after podcast of these guys that do Internet-based businesses. Basically, they make a business out of running a podcast and then selling a bunch of stuff on it. And I’m not saying that’s bad – and in fact, a lot of them are super successful. And I’m not saying I would never do that with our podcast, but I think I love the content of talking to people that need to make payroll and they have issues like you and I have issues, of having staff and what does it take to grow something like that, kind of the more traditional business model.
And it’s harder to market a business that’s off-line, I think. And you and I have talked about that on different shows. I love your line, how you always say that you’ve never heard a business that has too many customers, or have –
JOHN: Right, right.
NICK: So, if you listen to a lot of podcasts – and I have done that in just researching for what we want to do – a lot of these guys pass their guests back and forth, you know? It seems like they all know each other, they have all seen each other at conferences; I’m on your show, now, the next week you’re going to be on my show. And it’s just all this kind of stuff that – some of it is good content; I’m not going to knock it.
I definitely learned some really great stuff from listening to these guys, but when I was looking, after we stopped our show, I couldn’t find a podcast that replaced it. So then, a couple years went by. So fast forward to this last Thanksgiving. So I’m going on a road trip. Catherine and I and the boys, we decided to go to Portland to go see a friend for Thanksgiving. And we weren’t going to fly; we were going to drive. And –
JOHN: You always do that which I can’t believe –
NICK: (Laughter). No.
JOHN: – but go ahead (laughter).
NICK: Well, when you have four people and you have to put them in seats, it’s just – you know, anyways. So I’ve got 26 hours of time to fill. And when I drive, I found that if I’m listening to a book or a podcast or something, the time just goes – (snaps fingers) – like that. Those don’t bother me at all.
So I started looking and I found this podcast “Small Business, Big Marketing”. And it’s a guy, Timbo Reid, out of Australia. And his concept is a little bit different. I mean, his message is talking marketing. I mean, we talked a lot about marketing, but the main thrust of this show is, he finds people that are doing something really great, with marketing is their small businesses.
At some of them have been a little bit larger, but that the majority of the guests that he has. And I just couldn’t get enough. I listened, literally listened, to 20 hours straight, in the car. I remember, our family would stop at a burger joint and I was like, “Oh, wait I’ve got to finish – I’ve got to listen to this one thing.” And I was just hooked.
And I couldn’t stop thinking, this is just like our show. In a lot of ways – I mean, it was different, too – but there were a lot of components off it, that I was just like, finally, I found a show.
JOHN: Why were you hooked? I mean, what did you like about it so much, this particular podcast of Timbo Reid –
JOHN: I mean, specifically, what was it that made you want to sit there and listen to this thing for hours upon hours? Is there a couple of things, is there one thing?
NICK: Yeah. One is, he is funny. So he’s entertaining; it’s not just, say, “Let’s call this business guy and –
JOHN: And he talks funny, huh?
NICK: He talks – of course, they all talk funny [overlap].
NICK: You know, they rip on Americans –
JOHN: I love the way they talk [overlap].
NICK: – They rip on Americans, like, every other show [overlap] and so, I’m not going to hold back. So they all sound funny. And they all say these words, I have no idea what they even mean –
JOHN: Mah-keting – he says, “mah-keting” –
NICK: “Mah-keting”, yeah. And actually, that sounded more boss than accent, John (laughter).
NICK: So he makes it fun, but really, the meat of what I love. And then, you have some shows that are like, one step off, where he has a friend who writes books. And when he comes on, I’m not as interested, because it’s just those two kind of yakking it up.
And it’s pretty decent, but what I really love is when he has a business owner on there that’s just – you know, they’re engaging and they’re fun. I think I shared with you, probably one of my favorite episodes was he talked to the guy who runs the lawn care franchise, down in Australia –
JOHN: James mowing.
NICK: James mowing. And I just – oh, man, I can’t even tell you how many times and listen to that episode and it’s just filled with fantastic stories. And I actually went on to read his book and listen to more stuff about him, just because I was so fascinated. But I love the real – the success, the failure, the falling down, getting back up –
JOHN: You know, what I find interesting about the whole podcast phenomenon lately is that, back in the day, when I was trying to educate myself and grow the business, I would listen to audio tapes, mostly cassette programs.
NICK: Hm mmm.
JOHN: And nowadays, with the Internet, all this stuff is available and it’s available for free. And a podcast is so cool, because you get to listen to it when you want, where you want, what you want to listen to –
NICK: As long as you want, you can stop it, start it again, go back and listen to it again.
JOHN: And there’s probably a podcast about anything that you would want to learn about.
JOHN: And they’re talking to people who are actually running these businesses or doing something that you like to do. Maybe you like to take pictures and someone is actually taking pictures. Or you want to learn how to market your business, like you said with Tim Bo, and he’s talking to people who actually have a business with great marketing ideas.
And that’s better than some guy writing a book – even an audio book – and talking about his theory on marketing, or whatever. So this is a really cool new thing and a great way to share information with people, especially business owners.
NICK: Yeah. And the other thing about listening to a lot of these other podcasts – and some people love this – but a lot of these podcasts, I would find would be guys that, they would be interviewing somebody and they were simply on the show to promote their latest book. They’re not necessarily doing small business, but they want to sell their book to people who own small businesses.
And a lot of times, I find myself thinking, this guy doesn’t really know much about small businesses – yeah he’s got a small business, but he doesn’t really know what it’s like to make payroll on Wednesday, at five o’clock.
JOHN: So you don’t put as much value in someone like that, because they haven’t done it? Is that what you’re telling me?
NICK: Yeah. I mean, honestly, I don’t. It’s the same way when I read a book I could carry – like, Seth Godin, right now, is super popular. And people like Seth Godin a lot. And I have to say, I don’t like his stuff.
He’s a marketing consultant – yes, he has been super successful, he’s a great speaker – but I don’t look at him and go, “Man, I want to build a business like him.” I would much rather go and talk to a guy like Tommy, from Tommy’s Salon Shop who built the business from nothing, did “hey, dude” marketing and – (laughter). I love that word.
JOHN: That’s another episode, “hey, dude” marketing [overlap] –
NICK: Hey –
JOHN: That’s a great phrase [overlap].
NICK: He’s going to come of the show, and that’s what we’re going to talk about.
JOHN: Hey, dude [overlap].
NICK: But that guy started a business, tried to do two locations at one point and opened a second location in Florida. It wasn’t a good fit for him, so he ended up shutting it down and focused here in Colorado, and really grew his business, here in Colorado pretty big, and survived through the economic crash.
And then, we had him on the show, probably at his height of popularity and success, because of the Small Business, Naked radio show. And then, shortly after that, he sold his business. And I want to hear that story about finding somebody that said – I mean, that’s what we – a lot of people build business to go, “You know, some day, I want to sell this thing.” That success, I think.
Tons of people start businesses and they just kind of fade off in the distance. But man, to grow something that you would eventually want to go, “Man, I want to sell this for $1 million or $2 million” – whatever, that somebody else will go, “There is enough value there; I’m going to pay you that much money.” I love that.
JOHN: I think, with business, too, there are so many variables and you cannot learn it all; you will never master it completely. And so, I think people would want to listen to a podcast or gather more information about a business or business skills, because first of all, generally, most people are passionate about what they’re doing.
Most business owners – small business owners, I think – are really into what they’re doing. They’re excited about it. And who wouldn’t want to learn more about something you’re passionate about?
JOHN: It’s kind of like – it reminds me of mountain biking; you’ll never master it –
JOHN: – so you’re always want to learn more; there’s always someone doing it better, there’s always someone with a great idea that you could borrow. And –
NICK: Well, that’s what I love about talking to people in so many different industries, because I think, a lot of times, we get stuck. I don’t really do this, but I know a lot of people do. They get stuck in just talking to people in their industry – you will to different lawn care seminars or conventions or whatever, and you talk to different folks.
And I think a lot of small businesses get stuck and that’s all they talk to. So, “Let’s just see what everybody else in my industry is doing,” and then, everybody else ends up doing the same, exact thing. Well, I like getting ideas from other industries and going, “Man, I can do that.” So for example, podcasting for a painting business: who does that, right?
I mean, the radio show grew my painting business. And I can honestly say I have sold a half a million worth of printing services, because of the fact that I had a radio show, because of one of the guests we had on the show. But nobody thinks outside the box; I mean, very few people do. So if you’re not out there, talking to different business owners, going, “What are you doing, what are you doing?” Maybe that would work in my industry.
So that’s another reason I like talking to so many different kinds of businesses and hearing the different stories.
JOHN: Let me sum this up to make sure that I understand: first of all, you missed it. Second of all, you really couldn’t find – what you were looking for when you are looking for a podcast is, you wanted – you wanted someone who interviewed true business owners and you wanted to learn from their experiences –
JOHN: And you and I talked about in the past, that a lot of times, the failures of the struggles are as important – if not even more important, than the successes people have.
JOHN: And so you don’t get that from theory or a book; you get that from sitting across the table for talking to someone about their business.
NICK: Yeah. There’s a selfish component, too, though.
JOHN: What’s the third one?
NICK: I didn’t kind of get to that one, yet.
JOHN: Okay, let’s talk about that one.
NICK: So, from a selfish standpoint, I love doing it. I loved meeting the folks that we met, the relationships – I’ve got some friendships that came out of that, doing that radio show for 10 months that I will have, till I’m dead.
And there is nothing – you know, we also made some money and all that, because of painting. But I think the relationships – you know, Jerome Grady has become a friend that you and I have both picked up the phone and gone and grabbed coffee and gotten feedback from him. Jamie Rowe, her and her husband have become best friends to Kathryn and I and their kids.
And then, there are other people that I’ve stayed in contact on Facebook, so I’ll comment on them and what they’re doing and just keep tabs. And it’s just been kind of fun. And then, I’ll think about – and then, I’ll get sad, because I think, “Gosh, had we just got off line, or actually, got online and off of radio, at that point?” Because we stopped because of the money stuff –
NICK: You know? And I’m just going to be clear on that; we were trying to – I was trying to get the revenue from the radio standpoint, because I bought the time and then we sold advertising space. Because it’s on radio, it’s really hard to qualify and do all that stuff, so it just became – it was an expensive hobby. Now, had I realized I was going to end up selling half a million in paint, then I would’ve gone, “Oh, let’s just keep going, you know (laughter)?” But –
JOHN: Let it roll!
NICK: Let it roll. So going to podcasting is way less expensive. I mean, I think it’s going to be about a third of the cost of the time that I bought on air. And –
JOHN: I think more impactful, too, don’t you think? I mean, that’s the part that I’m excited about.
NICK: [overlap] I think, with the research I’ve done with podcasting and what we can do – focusing on it and doing some kind of behind the scenes SEO work and all that – I honestly think that we could get more traction with the knowledge that I’ve learned from podcasting. I mean, there is a guy out there that has a podcast that he has – I don’t know – half a million listeners.
He actually has a website that shows how much money he generates through this podcast business that he has created and it’s, like, $250,000 a month. I mean, it’s crazy; like, that’s profit. And he puts what his expenses are and all that stuff; it’s all just sit there in the open for people to see. So I’m excited to do the podcast, from all of those kinds of reasons.
And listening to Tim’s show and Tim is – or Timbo – he’s a big proponent for businesses to have podcasts, for lots of reasons: a) it separates you from your competition; b) it’s great for SEO and getting traction. Google’s algorithms are changing to be more about, don’t just shit on your website and keywords and all this stuff, over and over and over to get traction, but consistent, relevant content.
And so, really, any business owner that has a niche could literally have a podcast – and should, really, because you’d get way more traction. Let’s say, you spend $500 a month running a podcast a month: there are services out there, SEO companies that you can hire for SEO services. And $500 is, like, the minimum that they will even talk to you for. They really want $1000 or more.
JOHN: Sure [overlap].
NICK: And I think the podcast will get you way more traction. And I think a lot of people would think, “Eh, my industry is not that interesting,” but you can make it interesting. I’m starting a podcast for my painting business, specifically, where I’m talking to interior designers all over the world. And that’s pretty cool.
I have gals in Dubai and London and they’re all excited to talk to me about it. And I think people would want to listen to that. And that podcast is really going out for me to attract more interior designers, because those are great customers for us.
JOHN: Yeah, I agree with you. And I think most people do not want to do it because it’s labor-intensive, it’s time. And you can’t just hand it off, or delegate it. I mean, it’s probably something that you should –
NICK: Well, at least the talking part –
JOHN: You should – yeah. Yes.
NICK: You can’t really – yeah. I mean there is – you can really outsource the rest of the stuff. And that’s what we’re going to do. We have a producer, Paul, with mammoth audio. And he’s actually in Australia. So our producer is actually in Australia. So we used to have Charlie –
JOHN: Can we make fun of Australians, like they make fun of Americans? Is that okay, here, or –
NICK: Every time I hear they make do a dig about how fat and lazy Americans are, I’m going to do –
JOHN: Is that what they say or –
NICK: Oh, my God, they – yes.
JOHN: But it’s probably true. They don’t just –
NICK: A lot of us are; oh, let me tell you. So I was in Vietnam, right? And we go to the beach, while we were there. This was like a couple months ago – my wife and I, we go to this resort on the beach. And literally, I felt like I went to Australia, because every freaking person around, they’re all Australian.
Every single one of them was Australian for a period of time. And we ended up finding out it was because they were on their winter break; their kids were, and so they were all there. But I just didn’t get – I said, “God, what is the deal? Why were they also big?” Like, they were – I mean, they were like… (laughter) –
JOHN: So they are big, Australians, not skinny?
NICK: They are big [overlap]. They were all big.
JOHN: So why are they making fun of us [overlap]?
NICK: I know, right [overlap]? But here’s the deal: so we went to the Dominican Republic, a couple years ago and went to a resort. And those freaking people were humongous. But they were all like Canadians and Europeans. And they were – I mean, I honestly think that the average weight there was, like, 250 pounds. So they weren’t 300 pounders from Australia (laughter), but they were all big. The only skinny people were the Europeans and then, my wife.
NICK: (laughter). Everybody else was pretty – and the kids, the kids were small. But yeah. And man, they all talked about Americans. I was sitting in the background; I didn’t really engage with that many people.
But man, they were talking about how Americans did the worst stuff in Vietnam and all this – and it was just interesting. But yeah, they were – I love listening to the Australian accent, though. I just – and I can’t wait to go –
JOHN: Well, I know that their accent is great; I just didn’t know that they were as fat as us [overlap].
NICK: (laughter) Oh, absolutely. In fact, Timbo talked about going to Vietnam. And he travels the world a lot that he always gets mistaken for an American. And he’s – you know (laughter)…
JOHN: But he talks like that, right?
NICK: Yeah. I think – yeah. But I think he actually just lost a bunch of weight in the last year or so. He lost like 30 – is it kilograms or –
JOHN: We need to have him – yeah, kilos.
NICK: Yeah, kilos.
JOHN: We should have him on our show.
NICK: Yeah, that would be fun. I would love that.
JOHN: He would be a good – he would be a good one to –
NICK: Talk to him about – because he has really grown a good sized business out of his podcast. I mean, he just started it, him and – he started with a co-host.
JOHN: That’s how it all starts, usually, right?
JOHN: What happened to his co-host? Maybe that’s for another story.
NICK: You know, it is. I think his co-host got a full-time job. He’s a marketing guy, like an Internet marketing guy. So, like, SEO and stuff, I think.
JOHN: So I wanted to add – I don’t mean to interrupt your thought process, here, but –
NICK: But you’re going to, anyways.
JOHN: I am. So we talked about this show purposefully being a little bit more energy and being a little bit more off-color – not rude or crude by any means, but just kind of a little fun and a little explicit, I think is the word I like. And I don’t know about you, but I think it’s going to take some time and some talent to cultivate that.
But in the last day, you have – and I’ve been talking about this cover for the – I guess, the iTunes cover, and the little – what do you call these? I don’t want to call them (inaudible – 22:26), but they are the little logo that you have when you Google us –
NICK: Album covers –
JOHN: Album covers, good [overlap].
NICK: – for lack of a better term. There may be a technical term, but I don’t really care.
JOHN: So you had one that is really clean and tidy and just looks professional; it really does. It says our name is Small Business, Naked and it has a microphone there. So there’s a visual to show that we probably talk about stuff. And hopefully, we talk about small business. And then, you have another one there would be –
NICK: But you’re missing one –
JOHN: What’s that [overlap]?
NICK: It says “explicit business content” –
JOHN: Thank you [overlap]. In red, like a stamp, which is really cool.
JOHN: It’s like the album cover – if you will – is stamped and says – almost like with that explicit material –
NICK: Adults only? Yeah.
JOHN: Yeah [overlap].
NICK: Exactly. And that’s what I was going after, yeah.
JOHN: And then, you have this other album cover – which we’re calling it –
JOHN: We have to find out what you call those things. But I like “album cover”, because I always wanted to be a rock star.
NICK: That’s right.
JOHN: This other one is this girl, that’s – I think, tastefully undressed – and kind of has a sheet that comes up on her. And again, it says, Small Business, Naked. And again, with the explicit lyrics there. But it has such a visual that it really grabs peoples emotion, because – you know, how we talked about the other day of how Americans – and I don’t know if most people are this way – are concerned about nudity and all that stuff. But I mean, I think it’s tastefully done.
NICK: Is this the one you’re referring to, John?
JOHN: Yes, that’s it. Nick’s showing me a picture of it, right now.
JOHN: It looks like it’s snowing, though, in the background. I didn’t see that.
NICK: (laughter) Yeah, it’s vague now. This one’s vague, so –
JOHN: Isn’t she cold? I mean, she has to be freezing, if it’s snowing outside.
JOHN: So, anyways –
NICK: So you don’t like the feedback I’ve been getting from people?
JOHN: Well, no. I’m more – I’m not as vulnerable, I think, to the feedback, as maybe you are in some situations –
JOHN: So last night, I’m sitting with my new girlfriend –
JOHN: – if I could call her that. Maybe we’re not there yet, but –
NICK: Dude, that’s danger – wow. That’s –
JOHN: – but I’m sitting there –
NICK: YOU’RE putting yourself out there, John. She met listen to this, at some point (laughter).
JOHN: (laughter) I’m sitting there, with a lady friend –
JOHN: And I say to her – you know, I bring these both up on the computer. And I know better than to ask for other people’s opinion, but you were going through this. So I was just curious: you know, “What you think of these?”
And I said, “By the way, before you make a decision, I’m not asking you what you think other people think of them. What do you think of them?” And so then, right away, she picks the more conservative one. And I go, “All right, why did you pick that one?” “Well, I think the other one will offend people.”
And I said, “Hold on a second, I told you not to pick it, because of what you thought other people think of it and pick the one you like.” “Well, that’s the one I like,” you know? And we got into this little debate –
JOHN: So I know better than to ask for opinions, there.
JOHN: And the reality is – I remember Warren Buffett when saying this; this is stuck in my head – when he talks about buying businesses or doing things, he always says, “I never put it to a vote,” meaning he cares less or could care less about what other people think. But he follows the data; it’s the true facts.
JOHN: And I think – you know, in this situation, it could be that one just outpolls the other, for whatever reason and the data shows that. And that’s rightfully the best one to use, because the data shows that more people are attracted to this one.
But without that data and just people’s opinions – because people have them – it’s hard to listen to their opinion, subjectively or objectively, because I don’t think it’s a true opinion of really what can go on, down the line.
NICK: Yeah, it’s interesting [overlap]. So one of the guys that give me feedback on this marketing forum that I’m in was, “I think you should go with the conservative one, Nick. But, personally, I like the other one better.”
And I think that a lot of people – it’s like, when you have an idea for a business: you go, “Oh, I’m thinking about doing this” – whatever it is: making a product or doing a new service, whatever it is. And you have all these people around you that go, “Oh, that’s a great idea”.
JOHN: “Write me a check, because we’re going to (inaudible – 26:39),” right?
NICK: Exactly. And I’m like, “Well, alright. How many do you want to buy?” “Well, I don’t know if I…”
JOHN: “I don’t know if I like it that much.”
NICK: Exactly. So it really doesn’t matter what the feedback is from people. The only thing that really matters is the action. It doesn’t get people – and so, when we came up with this name, to take it back a step: originally, the show was named, “Cultivating Small Businesses with Nick May”, kind of in-line with everything else you see in the iTunes Store: this podcast, that podcast with so-and-so.
So then, we go, “You know, we want to be a little bit edgier,” and I don’t know how we came up with Small Business, Naked, but we liked it. We both liked it; we liked the idea of peeling back the layers and getting to the real deal of what it takes, to run a small business. And there’s always this constraint, if we’re on this conservative radio station, because it was a conservative radio station.
And now that we don’t have that constraint, we’re like, what can we do to push the envelope? And when I go to the iTunes Store and I put in “small business”, because that’s basically – I’m either going to do that or I’m going to do “small business marketing” or “marketing shows”. So those are the things I would typically go and search for.
NICK: I mean, I didn’t pull it up. But again, it’s going to be all the same kind of stuff, like –
NICK: – “Cultivating Small Business with Nick May”. And we are a visual people; everybody is just visual. And I think – the bottom line is, we want more people – and I have two different things I want to talk about with it. We want more people to –
JOHN: By the way, I like how you changed our logo from the brown to the black.
NICK: Yeah, it never was supposed to be brown; I think it was just a bad graphic design work on that. But I had somebody punch it up and make it cleaner.
JOHN: So I’m looking now at all these –
NICK: These are podcasts that Nick listens to.
JOHN: – album covers –
NICK: These are the ones that I’ve chosen to listen to [overlap].
JOHN: – and – well, you know, a couple things. I mean, I’m looking at all these. And I do like people’s faces, because –
NICK: But if you don’t know them –
JOHN: Right, but –
NICK: – it means nothing.
JOHN: – but I do like the face. I mean, compared to the other ones, like, there’s one with a little microphone and a shark tank. I mean, I would prefer to someone’s face than something like the ones here.
NICK: I like – Paul’s really funny. He – Vino Unplugged – you know what really – you can kind of tell what it’s about –
JOHN: Quit tapping your iPad; it’s freaking me out (laughter).
NICK: Oh, sorry.
JOHN: You’re going to scratch your iPad, Nick.
NICK: But I like (inaudible – 29:26), because it’s a little bit different.
JOHN: Uh huh.
NICK: You’re like, “Well, what’s that about?” The guy who is running with wine and –
JOHN: (Inaudible – 29:32) is up there; can you put (inaudible – 29:33) in here –
NICK: I can’t. It has to be in the iTunes Store; it’s not in the store yet.
JOHN: Thought you would be able to take it out.
NICK: But I wanted to pull up – so this is “small business”. I think I did a search – yeah, small business. So this is what’s going to pull up when someone goes in the iTunes Store. I mean, some of them don’t even have art covers you know?
NICK: And that’s almost as bad as not having art covers, when it’s just words. But they’re all just kind of –
JOHN: I remember –
NICK: And they all look nice; they all look professionally done.
JOHN: I remember listening to this guy, Ted Nicholas, who was a copywriter. And one of his big things he always would teach you was that when you had a photo – and I don’t know if it applies to this, what we are calling an album cover – but when you have a photo you better not dare put a photo in an advertising piece, without a caption. You must put a caption.
And then, you know, we always talk about the major things; the headline. And the headline needs to get the reader, grab their attention. But your photo that you have in your ad should be attached to that headline, in some way, shape or form. Like, you shouldn’t talk about losing weight and have a picture of a lawnmower in there.
NICK: Flowers [overlap].
JOHN: Flowers. I mean, there was just no tie in. So the picture emphasizes what you’re doing. And what I like about your one logo – Small Business, Naked in there with a lady there, half naked – visually, it ties in –
NICK: You didn’t even have to see the word “naked” and you’re like, “What’s” –
JOHN: You know that there is something naked going on, here. And it’s about business and it just –
NICK: And, “Why is this in” – I mean, that’s the intrigue of it. It’s, “Why is this in the business podcast area?”
JOHN: Shouldn’t this be in the pornography section, or –
NICK: Yeah [overlap].
JOHN: – XXX, or something like that? But no. I think it just has such a visual impact and –
NICK: And you have just a split second to grab someone’s attention, in this thing.
JOHN: That’s all you have, anywhere.
NICK: And typically, what I would find when I’m looking through these is, the art doesn’t do anything for me. So I have to spend time reading the text. But if I saw that – this new one – I’d go, “Well, what does naked have to do with business?”
JOHN: And as my lady friend said, it’s going to offend some people. And I think, darn right, it is. But that’s what we want to do.
NICK: Yeah. So that the only thing I wanted to talk with you about, John. So you’re going to offend some people. And some people have given me the impact, “Well, I would never listen to this. I wouldn’t click on that.” And kind of – I go, “Well, maybe you would, maybe you won’t, you can’t really tell me that because that’s not the option right now.”
But a lot of people complain about Walmart; everyone’s up in arms about Walmart, this big, horrible company in America that’s robbing people – why the hell are so many freaking people going to Walmart? I mean, I go to Walmart, I can’t frigging find a place anywhere, close to the front door.
JOHN: (Laughter). To park.
NICK: And it doesn’t matter if I go to a brand-new one, or one down on Colfax –
JOHN: I just wanted to remind you, it’s time to have a snack [overlap].
NICK: Thanks (laughter). Thanks, John. Thanks for pointing that out.
JOHN: Can I have a snack, too?
NICK: After we are done.
JOHN: It’s time for us both to have a snack break. Go ahead.
NICK: (laughter) you know what I mean? Because people say one thing, but then, they do a different thing. And so –
JOHN: Hold on a second: do you get so busy, I have to remind you to have a snack (laughter)?
NICK: That’s a discussion for another day, John – why I have that in there (laughter). You’re so –
JOHN: I like that. It’s time – I’m ready for a snack, too, Nick.
NICK: Every three hours, actually, it goes up (laughter).
JOHN: (laughter) All right, all right, let’s go.
NICK: But does that make sense, that people say one thing – and especially, when there’s other people listening. I think there’s that – people are worried about what other people think and what they do.
JOHN: But for sure, they are. My dad always says, “Your actions speak so loud, I can’t hear what you’re saying.” So again, it goes back to the data. I mean – rightfully so – this picture of this naked lady could underperform. And we could be wrong –
JOHN: We could say, “You know what? We thought it was cool.”
JOHN: Nobody’s clicking on the digits if they don’t like it.
NICK: Well, I’m running the A/B test on Facebook, right now. I realized this morning that nobody had even seen it, because I had a setting wrong in it. So we have to go for another day to see the data, but –
JOHN: But I don’t know how valid that data – I mean, it’s good, but I don’t know how valid that data is. The data –
NICK: I look at that to go, “Okay, we’re going to show this thing to 150,000 people. How many clicks does each get?” If one has 200 clicks and the other one has five, then we have a clear winner.
JOHN: So wait, how are you doing the test on Facebook? Maybe that’s what I’m missing.
JOHN: You just didn’t post it on our Facebook page; you’re just doing a test (inaudible – 34:24),
NICK: Yeah, I’m running an ad on Facebook –
JOHN: Aha, okay [overlap].
NICK: – and when they click the ad, they’ll go straight to our Facebook page.
JOHN: Now that’s the test.
JOHN: Okay. Okay.
NICK: So I’m running – I’m running the test –
JOHN: I’m with you, now. So that’s a test [overlap].
NICK: So I sent you those ads; basically, did a version of each of these.
JOHN: Yeah, I saw that on the post, the Facebook post.
NICK: Yes. Yeah. So that’s going – so I found three cities that are relatively the same size or polled the same amount of people that were interested in small business. So the ads are going to be run, not next to each other in the same city – because I didn’t want to have – like, if they saw both of them, I thought that could contaminate the results.
NICK: So one set of people will see one image, the other set of people will see another, and they will both have the same type. And I bid on the same amount of money, so there is no advantage of one over the other –
JOHN: Well, that’s good. So we’ll know at the end of the day, what’s grabbing people’s attention.
NICK: Yeah. So if it’s even, it’s even. But I have a theory that I think one will pull more than the other one will. And then – yeah. But I wanted to talk to you about, who do we want to target with this? Because, obviously, if we get that image and that’s kind of the cornerstone of our branding – if that’s the brand in the – so who would listen to this? Who would want to listen to this, based on that?
JOHN: I think it’s going to be people just like us. I think it’s going to be business owners. And I’m guessing, here, but I’m going to say people, probably, with businesses under $10 million, which is a huge – the largest segment that exists. I don’t know what that number is, maybe it’s under $5 million. But it’s that entry-level, small business and beyond.
You get over that; I think you’re – I don’t know if those people listen to podcasts, that runs $30 million, $40 million companies. Maybe they do. But I see a lot more people in the other category and a lot more people trying to get better. So I see those type of demographics working for us.
And I see people that just want to do better; they just want to listen to someone who has actually done it and they want to hear someone’s story. And the content has to be great, the entertainment has to be fairly good. But, like Paul told us, 80% of it has to be just great stuff that you’re talking about.
And so, it’s going to be people just like us that want to listen to it. And like you – I mean, you’re consuming this data, anyways, on these podcasts. And I do, too – not as many as you, but I consume a couple that I listen to, religiously. And I can’t wait for the next one to come out.
JOHN: So if we can supply people with good content, I don’t see why they wouldn’t want to come back and listen to it. So that’s the kind of – it’s us.
NICK: And I think they will be an aspect of business owners that kind of have a, “I’m going to do things my way,” that aren’t necessarily the traditional or conservative folks. So they’re going to tend to be a little bit more liberal on stuff. And so, that picture is not necessarily going to offend, you know what I mean?
You know what story just popped into my head? I started thinking about Tommy Phillips, from Tommy’s Salon Shop and when he was telling us about offending people. Now, Tommy’s a very Christian guy and he’s very vocal with his faith. But when he would go to the boat shows, Tommy would put girls in bikinis –
JOHN: (laughter). Isn’t that interesting, though [overlap]?
NICK: – in boats. You know what I’m saying?
JOHN: Yeah. That’s a great example.
NICK: And they were just having fun. And he wasn’t trying to be sexual with it, he’s just, “We’re having fun. And people were mad that we had girls in bikinis” – you don’t remember, when he was telling us that?
JOHN: I didn’t remember that, until you brought that up.
NICK: (Laughter). And more people were wanting to come to their booth, instead of the other ones, because they just had this fun element.
JOHN: Yeah, I agree with that. You’re not going to make everybody happy.
NICK: No, we’re going to make some people mad.
NICK: I bet you will get some hate mail.
JOHN: That’s –
NICK: What’s your theory on hate mail, John?
JOHN: When we get it that means we’re doing something right.
JOHN: We better get hate mail; we want it.
JOHN: Please send us hate mail.
JOHN: But I think those are the people that are going to listen to our show. And generally, most entrepreneurs are edgy. I’m sure there are some conservative ones, but that’s the reason why they started their own businesses, it’s that –
NICK: I think there are a lot of conservative ones that want to be edgy. And so, they hang out with edgier people secretly, so they’re going to listen to a podcast, secretly (laughter).
JOHN: But think about it: why you start your own business is because you don’t want the constraints of a boss.
NICK: That’s the way I did it, yeah.
JOHN: You want a flexible schedule, you’re kind of a (inaudible – 39:23) rebel, because you don’t want
to do things like everybody else; you don’t want to go to school and get a job. So you’re different, anyways, because you’re trying this. And I think you’re open to a lot of different things, because the business environment just lends itself to that type of personality.
JOHN: Like I said, I’m generalizing, which is not a good thing. But I think most people are rebels, that are entrepreneurs; they want to get out there and do things differently and they want to shake things up. And the ones that are shaking things up are the ones that are successful.
JOHN: Who was that guy – Sheldon, from the Venetian – that guy, the billionaire that owns the Venetian. And one of his famous quotes is – people ask him, “What do I need to do, to be successful?” And he is so funny, the way he says it – if you ever get chance, Google it on YouTube – and he goes, “I tell you, all the time, what you need to do and nobody listens to me.” He goes, “Just do things different than everybody else,” you know? That’s his line.
NICK: Yeah, yeah.
JOHN: And I think, as simple as that answer, there’s a lot to that.
NICK: So there’s a guy I want to get on the show, and I know you will appreciate this guy. And I will say he has branded his business in a similar way and has been very successful, and that’s the guy from Go Daddy. But that guy’s name?
JOHN: Yeah… I can’t remember.
NICK: Bob, something.
JOHN: Bob… Partridge… something…
JOHN: Parsons, yeah. But you know, I heard he sold Go Daddy; he’s out.
NICK: He did?
JOHN: I heard that.
NICK: Well, I want to hear that story [overlap].
JOHN: So I don’t know what he’s doing now. But that’s what I heard.
NICK: But you know. He definitely has this kind of edge to him.
JOHN: Sure [overlap].
NICK: And I think it fits very well with his demographics of his perfect target customer: you know, a lot of tech guys – tech guys like girls. And so he uses them in all of his marketing and advertising. And he is very consistent with that brand. And he is definitely edgy, a little bit edgier than I want to go.
I mean, they have those ads on the Super Bowl that you almost think if you click on it, you going to go into some porn site. But he has been super successful. But I would love to have that guy on the show. But yeah, I think that’s – I think when you decide it’s okay – that we are not going to be for everybody – I think then, you can really stand for who you want to stand for and produce content for.
NICK: And the gal who is running that the stationery business out of her basement, who is very super conservative, might not like our show.
JOHN: No, she’s going to hate us.
JOHN: And that’s okay.
NICK: Yeah, yeah. And that’s fine.
JOHN: We are not a fit for someone like that.
JOHN: On the other half of your question, you asked what kind of people are going to listen to our show. I think, equally important, is what kind of guests we’re going to have on our show. And after talking to Paul – the guy who is going to produce for us –
NICK: Hi, Paul.
JOHN: I really concur with him in the sense that it doesn’t have to be these big names. And I think, a lot of times –
NICK: It can be fun to have a big name, every once in a while.
JOHN: Every once in a while, it would be great. But people really want to identify with the guys that’s kicking ass in Detroit, that has a garbage business that has 23 trucks and just killing it. I think people can get that; they can get their mind wrapped around that and they can get excited about that.
And you and I are like that; I mean, this is a product of us. You and I could go out and see a garbage company that’s killing it here locally and we are excited. We want to ask them questions like, “What’s going on, how did you do it, how are you marketing?” It doesn’t matter what they’re doing, we’re just excited that they’re killing it in the business.
NICK: I have a funny story on that; I’m going to take a little left turn on you. So when I was four years old, my mom asked me what I wanted to be when I grow up. I said, “I wanted to be a garbage man.” And my mom was concerned. And she was like what – “What? Why would you want to be a garbage – it’s so dirty.”
And I said, “No, I don’t want to be the guy picking up the garbage, I want to be the guy that owns all those trucks that keep going by.”
NICK: And then, when I started my thinking business – this is actually right before I met you – I was keeping my trailers and stuff in this yard that was also shared by a brand-new garbage company. And that company is Pro Disposal. And they are now one of the largest garbage companies, here in Denver. And they grew superfast.
But I literally remembered those guys being so excited because, you know, “This is our first truck. It just came.” It was white and super – I had never seen a garbage truck so clean. But yeah, that’s just kind of funny, that you said “garbage company”.
JOHN: Yeah, it’s true.
NICK: So what I think we need to do is we need to set some kind of ground rules. So as we’re going – so you can go ask people and I can go ask people and I don’t have to go, “Hey, John, do you think this would be a good one?” I think we just go ask people and we’ll just build that. What should be those criteria? And I would start by saying, they have to have employees.
JOHN: Yeah, for sure. You know, I wouldn’t even – there is always a caveat to that, but there are some businesses. Nowadays, that don’t have employees; that have some subs that are doing really good stuff. So there’s always an exception. But yes, I agree with you, for the most part.
NICK: And I think, with these rules, if you’re missing one, even maybe two of them –
JOHN: Sure [overlap].
NICK: – I think we can look. But if you have the majority of these, we’re going to be going in the right direction.
JOHN: Yeah. I mean, generally, if you’re an off-line business, you’re going to be hard pressed to be killing it with just you, unless you’ve got some type of unique structure, like subs or something like that.
NICK: I don’t know how big 99 Designs was, when we interviewed that company, but they were pretty big. I don’t know if they outsource everything or –
JOHN: I have no idea.
NICK: But it’s total online business, so who knows how many employees those guys had?
JOHN: I think this is a general term, but they have to be successful. And I think they have to have one thing that shows they can bring value to our audience.
NICK: What does success mean, though? Is that –
JOHN: It could be financial success, marketing, it could be a great operations method. It could be some cool, unique thing they do in their business that is somehow duplicable, for other people. Like, maybe this idea we just talked about; the birthday card – not the card idea, but the calling people on their birthday idea. I mean, that’s a – not a grand, awesome idea, but that’s a good idea.
NICK: No, it is.
JOHN: They have to have something like that, that –
NICK: But can we – I’m not sure if we can necessarily build a show around an idea like that. I mean, if we ran into a small town company – let’s just say they were a bakery up the street; they only have one location. And they do – I don’t know if we can build – I’m not sure if we can build a show around that.
JOHN: [overlap] I guess I’m more thinking about what’s their thing? You know. Every business has that one thing or strength that they do very well. So what’s their one strength that they can share with us and other people?
NICK: Yeah – I don’t know if that’s – for me, I want a little more meat to it than that –
JOHN: Well, I hope there’s more. But I mean, if they don’t have that, there’s no starting point. If they’re just an average business, then we should just –
NICK: Yeah [overlap]. Should not be average; I don’t like average.
JOHN: We should just interview these folks, but why? Well, why is because they have this bakery that does this unique thing and we should talk about that. And I’m sure that one unique thing has six other things associated with it.
But if they are just average, as you just wrote down, then that’s not good. So they have to have that success – which is financial, they have to be moving, they have to be growing, I think.
NICK: Okay, growing. Yeah. I just wrote a blog post about growing, using the analogy of a plant. A plant is either green and growing, or it’s dying. And I think that’s the same with businesses; it’s one or the other. And there are a lot of people out there that maybe just stick with the status quo.
And I don’t want to learn from those people. I want to learn from the people that it’s like, I have this weed in the backyard – and by the way, I don’t want you to look at my backyard, because of it – that’s like, 5 feet tall, kind of looks like –
JOHN: Five feet tall?! A five foot tall weed [overlap]?!
NICK: It kind of looks like a bush. And I’m okay with that (laughter).
JOHN: No, it is a bush.
NICK: But it’s like, you know, that thing is growing. That’s the kind of businesses we want to – you can’t not notice it in the backyard. You’re like, “Holy shit, that’s a weed. That’s a weed (laughter).”
JOHN: One day, you go, “Oh, my God, look at that weed.”
NICK: (Laughter) Right.
JOHN: Even though it’s a weed, it’s pretty sweet (laughter).
NICK: (Laughter). That’s right. It’s so sweet, I don’t want to cut –
JOHN: You don’t want to cut it down, so you must like it.
NICK: Right. Right, exactly.
JOHN: Yeah, “Come check out this weed [overlap].”
NICK: So not every business needs to be from all over, but I’d like a good mix up of our businesses to be kind of global. I want to get a global business mix. So I think we need to be more intentional about going after and finding businesses that are maybe overseas, someplace, but –
JOHN: I think, going back to what you said, talking about how to build a show about one thing, but – yes, global is good. But I’m thinking of going back to what one business does well. If you take a company like Zappos and –
NICK: He loves Zappos (laughter).
JOHN: – there’s a theme for this show, they’re really into customer service. So that’s what we talk about. You know, if we taught general business all the time, maybe people are going to be like, “Oh, here we go again, they’re just going to talk shop.”
But if you have an episode that you can plug: “Well, we’re going to tell you how to get 50 customers in 50 days,” or something like that, and we have a guy who is doing that, there is a theme for that show.
And other things may work into that, but there is a reason why we are doing this show: because this business does this thing really, really well –
JOHN: – and we want to share that with you.
JOHN: And so. If we can take these tidbits from each person, I think people will tune in. Instead of just saying, “We’re going to talk business again with another business owner,” you know, “What is it that we are going to take from this business owner,” I guess, is what I’m trying to say.
NICK: Yeah. And I think that’s in the planning of knowing a little bit about the business. And we’ll want to hear about how you started. But these are the two or three things – or maybe, it’s just one thing that you don’t really well, that you’re just killing it with – and really zero in on those things. So here’s a question for you: can a business be too big for our show?
JOHN: No, never.
NICK: So if we got IBM, the CEO of IBM – I want to talk to business owners. I mean, that’s kind of – and that was the one thing, to be honest, John, that bothered me about the Zappos interview is that we didn’t get Tony Hsieh.
JOHN: Yeah, we didn’t. I think it was still good.
NICK: It was a good interview –
JOHN: But it was not –
NICK: But it wasn’t –
JOHN: It’s not the same; I get it.
NICK: And I want to come back to format in a second, because I think there is room to talk to those people, as well. But I think one of the criteria is, you’re either the owner or the cofounder of that business.
JOHN: Yeah, I think so. So as you said, “What business is too big?” And I said “None”; I still stand behind that. But I like what you said, that it has to be a founder, or the guy running the show.
NICK: So there is this guy, Nick, who started a little bitty company called Go Pro, that’s a huge business and I would love to get that story.
JOHN: Yes. See? That would be perfect, if you got him [overlap] –
JOHN: – instead of the PR guy at Go Pro.
NICK: Exactly [overlap]. I don’t want to talk to the PR guy from Go Pro, or his personal assistant. I just want to talk to Nick, because he has a good name.
NICK: So I think that’s a good kind of structure. I think it will be loose and there will be exceptions, John, but I think, for the most part, if we are going after businesses and just going after that, I think we are going to have more winners and losers.
JOHN: And I think the qualifying question for you and I is, we present something to each other, like, “I want to talk to So-and-so.” And the other person is probably going to say, “Why?”
JOHN: And so, we should have a good answer of why we need to talk to that business.
NICK: Yeah. You know, just thinking back to some of the interviews that we did on the radio show: we had – I would say we had more winners than losers. But we definitely had some guys that came on the show that weren’t fantastic. Do you remember the guy we never aired the episode of?
JOHN: No. But I remember you telling me we didn’t air an episode.
NICK: So we had a guy –
JOHN: I don’t remember who it was, though [overlap].
NICK: I don’t know if I should say who it was, but I don’t know. He doesn’t own the business anymore; he actually sold it. It was a company called Help a Reporter Out – H.A.R.O. – and his name was Peter, something.
JOHN: Very good memory.
NICK: So we interviewed him, it was a phone interview. And he was so distracted with whatever his life had in store. And he was just in his apartment in New York, but you could tell that we were a bother for him. And his whole company is about PR; getting PR for small businesses – and he was just such a jackass.
And we just – I just couldn’t air it. So we didn’t air that one. And he was kind of – he had a successful business, but he didn’t have employees; he outsourced everything and it was all online. So hopefully, we’ll weed out those guys, now.
JOHN: Yeah, yeah.
NICK: I would like to have, at least, a 5-minute conversation with everybody before we have them on the show.
JOHN: That would be nice, because then, you would qualify them.
NICK: Yeah, so – so on the format, I wanted to actually – I haven’t talked to you about this yet – but I wanted to talk to you about the format of the show. And I just kind of alluded to it. So I want our show to always be about the business owner. And I think respecting people’s time is very important, so I actually want to keep the show pretty tight.
JOHN: Thirty to forty-five minutes [overlap].
NICK: Thirty to forty-five minutes, depending on the content and how the conversation is going. But I always felt bad; I always felt like we were keeping people on the phone or keeping them in the studio too long, because sometimes, we would have them in there for an hour and a half.
And I always want people to be wanting more. What would be great is that we would do an interview and we would get a ton of downloads and a ton of comments. And we could go, “You know, we got so many comments and people wanting to know more; can you come back on the show?” I would love that.
JOHN: And we could do follow-up show.
NICK: And we could do a follow-up show, maybe a couple months or even a year down the road. But I would much rather have that than people going, “You know what? That kind of dragged. And it was just” – you know what I mean?
JOHN: Is that planter over there full of nuts?
NICK: It is.
JOHN: Can I have some?
NICK: You can.
JOHN: Those look delicious.
NICK: Yes, they are cashews. I just brought them down here, yesterday. So you can have a snack, John.
But that’s what I want to do; I want to keep our banter on that show pretty minimal. Before, when we were on the radio, John, we had to do the pre-show, and we interviewed another guy and then there were ads and then we would get into the interview. And bottom line is, I want to get into the meat of it and get to know those people.
And then, if that’s all people want to listen to, that’s the show. But here’s the twist, John: I want to do a second show, basically, in the same week. And this will put a little bit more time on you, now. Not more time than what we did back at the radio show, but I would like to do a follow-up show to every show – just about every show that we had an interview.
And then, that’s where you and I kind of talk about the learnings and talk about what’s going on in our lives. So kind of like, what we’re doing here.
JOHN: And maybe that’s just a very short version. Like what are you thinking, 10, 15 minutes?
NICK: Twenty-five to thirty minutes – you know, we can go on about a bunch of stuff.
JOHN: So what do we talk about, the person we just interviewed last week?
NICK: Uh huh.
JOHN: And so, instead of doing a – I don’t know – a 5–minute recap on that show, we would –
NICK: We would just close it up.
JOHN: We would close it up and talk for – I don’t know; you say 20 minutes, but 10, 15 minutes –
NICK: Whatever it is.
JOHN: – of what we’ve learned about.
NICK: Yeah. But then, now, it would also be the space where we go, “Hey, we have somebody that doesn’t fit in this category, but there’s one little thing that we love to have him on the show for.” So maybe it’s an Internet guy, or it’s a Zappos PR guy.
JOHN: I like that idea, because [overlap] –
NICK: So then, we can slot them over that little area. And so the one show that we have, always. So you always know what you’re getting, when you listen on the show that we release on Tuesdays, or whenever it is.
JOHN: It’s that guest and then, a review afterwards. So some people, if their review is much shorter, I would think would be like, “I only have 10 minutes for this show, but those guys are pretty funny; I want to listen to them for 10 minutes” –
NICK: Yeah, yeah.
JOHN: – and be done, like that.
JOHN: I could see that.
NICK: So basically, that show would be more like what we’re having right now: you and I, sitting down, just chatting. And I think it’s important for people to get to know you and I, kind of our personality, too, kind of just what’s up, would be my vision for that –
JOHN: Okay, I like that [overlap].
NICK: And then, that’s where you and I are like, “Hey what’s up in your world today? And what’s going on with lawn care and your employees?” And sometimes, you and I will have some great stuff to share, sometimes it will be crap.
And then, other times, we’ll have a special guest that will come in to talk about how to build a website for under $500 or – you know? It just gives us a little bit of breathing room.
JOHN: I like it. I like it. And I think as long as it’s at least half or less the time, people will –
NICK: Yeah, my vision will be 25, 30 minutes, something like that. There’s a guy that does a podcast, that his episodes are 2 minutes to 6 minutes.
NICK: My phone’s ringing. I didn’t turn it off.
JOHN: All right, are we done here? Can we wrap it up?
NICK: What else do you think on the show? You have any other comments or ideas that you want to –
JOHN: I have lots of ideas.
NICK: Why do you want to do this show, John? You started this by asking me –
JOHN: Mine’s easy; it’s just plain fun. I enjoy talking shop and business with about almost anybody; that’s what I do. I love all types of business owners, I love all types of businesses. And it’s just a cool thing. I just enjoy everything about business. It’s in my blood.
JOHN: And so it’s easy for me; this is fun. I have no other objective, other than having fun for myself and sharing this with other people, sharing my love for business with other people. It’s about that simple, for me.
NICK: I have a secret… real – well, I hate to use the word “desire”, but it really speaks to what I want – I would love this to be something where you and I get to travel and to interview people.
JOHN: Like to Australia? You could keep trying that, until you do.
NICK: Like to Australia, yeah [overlap]. Yeah. But wouldn’t that be cool?
JOHN: That would be nice.
NICK: Like in the off-season, like you and I, every year – in January, we go –
JOHN: Go on a road trip [overlap].
NICK: – we just go on a road trip. And we meet some people and go see their shop and go see what they do. And some are planned and some are like, “Hey, I heard about you that I thought we’d come to see your operation. Can we interview you?” Wouldn’t that be fun?
JOHN: Yeah. To me, some of my fun as travel is business travel. I mean, I’m just – I mean, there you go, mixing two passions. For me, travel and business. I mean, it doesn’t get much better.
NICK: I know.
JOHN: Most people think, “Oh, man, when I go to travel, I don’t want to talk business or do business; I want to get away.” But for me, it’s like a mixture of two loves.
NICK: If we could mix our business with the – was it round the world or – Long Way Round?
JOHN: Yeah. Yeah.
NICK: Where they did the –
JOHN: The motorcycles?
JOHN: The trek?
NICK: And they met a bunch of people and – I think that would just be incredible and amazing, to get to that point, where we could do that.